Comunidad In Counseling And Why It Matters with Ryan Ramos, B.S., D.A. & Dr. Jorge Rosales Lopez, PhD, CRC, LPC, NCC

Therapy can teach you skills and still leave you wondering, “Do I sound real?” Ryan Ramos Master's student in Clinical Mental Health Counseling sits down with Dr. Jorge Rosales Lopez, a counseling professor at Palo Alto University, to talk about the part of clinical work that doesn’t fit into a worksheet: authenticity. We get into what it means to show up as yourself first and a counselor second, and why clients can feel the difference between a polished technique and a human response.

From there, we widen the lens to comunidad, belonging, and the systems that shape who feels safe seeking mental health support. Dr. Lopez shares how stigma shows up in Spanish speaking communities and how Ryan has heard similar messages in Filipino culture, where needing help can get mislabeled as being “crazy” or “broken.” We dig into how that shame keeps people out of therapy, and how clinicians can move from awareness to action, especially with clients who have historically been underserved.

We also talk about modern relationship realities, including non monogamy and other experiences that many training programs used to ignore. The focus is simple and challenging: create safety and connection before you try to “fix” anything. Finally, Dr. Lopez explains why language concordant therapy matters so much, how bilingual counseling can help clients feel truly seen, and why sustainable therapist self care often looks more like community care than solo routines.

If you care about therapist identity, inclusive mental health counseling, couples therapy training, and building a practice that stays human, press play. Subscribe, share this with a classmate or colleague, and leave a review with the biggest takeaway you’re claiming for yourself.

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Welcome back to the Healthy Life Therapist Podcast, where we explore what it means to live, grow, and show up authentically as clinicians as people. I'm Ryan Ramos, your host, and today's episode, we really are so excited to be joined by Dr. Jorge Rosales Lopez, who is actually my professor for couples counseling at Palo Alto University. Welcome, Dr. Lopez. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Excited, honored. And like I said, when when we first met last week to just kind of talk about, I think what you're doing is pretty cool. So I just appreciate you having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:05

I love hearing that. And you know, I was initially nervous to like ask you and email you. And I was like, I'm like reflecting about like, all right, I need to add on more episodes, but like I have like amazing faculty that like are teaching me. And I'm just like, I would love Dr. Lopez to be on this podcast. And I I took a chance, doc, emailed you, and I cannot believe the response. And I'm just so happy that you you are supporting me in this. So thank you so much. And and happy belated birthday. Oh, thank you, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

And I get it. I I know very much the feeling of you know, I'm not too far along removed from my programs as a master and doctor. And I know the very much feeling of like faculty are very unattainable, un what do you say? What am I trying to say? It's hard to connect with them or scary or something like that. So I get it. I get it for sure. And I'm I'm just glad to be here.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yeah, thank you so much. And and and you mentioned that word, like like I kind of relate to that word because it was like, you know, like I guess being faculty, there is some kind of privilege, right? There's a privilege, there's like a power to be to show and show wisdom for the next incoming therapists and generation.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

A hundred percent. I think, you know, every I'm you know, everywhere that we move, I think that kind of, you know, I always start off by like every class, every space that I enter where I know that we're gonna have like conversations, just like authenticity. I start off with like, hey, before I even talk, like I let I need to let you all know like my positionality. Like I'm a dad, I'm a first generation student, I'm a Latino man, I'm a brown man. You know, not because like that, like I feel special. I do, you know, some of those identities I feel very special, but just to recognize that we're operating in different systems and environments each and every day. And that comes with navigating through and through identities that have privilege, and some of them don't have privilege, some of them are marginalized and vulnerable. So, you know, yeah, 100%. I think that definitely kind of spills over into being a faculty member. And I like I've like I told you, I try my best to limit the power differential in classes with students, let them know that they're like colleagues already to me. But I know that that's easier said than done. But I try I really try my best to make it not that power to be felt as much.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

I I appreciate you saying that, and it really shows that's what I felt. Like when you were teaching, I felt like, wow, he's on my team, like he's here to really like help me out and not not have that limiting, if if that's that makes sense. You mentioned your dad, you you've come from like a Latino background.

What Comunidad Means In Practice

SPEAKER_00 3:57

My first question, Doc, is what does comunidad mean in your work today? Am I saying that right? Yeah, comunidad. It's community in Spanish, but that's a that's a great question.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Because I feel like ask me that yesterday, I might give you a different answer. Ask me that tomorrow, it might be a different answer. And you know, obviously asking him it today, I'm gonna give you what's on my mind. And comunidad, you're obviously representing community. I think I really like using comunidad even in my bios, on my syllabus, when I'm when I'm talking about the community that I'm trying to create, because for me, it's not that I don't resonate with the word community, but for me, the first introduction to the word community was comunidad in Spanish, my community, my family, my my uncles, my aunts, my cousins, the local community, the the local comunidad, you know, the people that you run into the stores consistently, the people that you saw when, you know, we went with my parents to to church because I was like a big uh a thing growing up. And you know, like just so many different things that represented comunidad for me, which, you know, for me means connection, it means care, you know, because that was one thing that I think my parents instilled a lot in me was kind of like this piece of caring for another person from a very young age, which I think impacted me to want to pursue counseling in the future, but that's a whole nother thing that we can talk about a little bit later. But I think that the caring for the other person is at the core of what I think comunidad means for me. Because, like you said, I want you to feel like I'm on your team. I don't want to be a pain in the ass professor. That's not my goal. My goal is to hopefully to recognize and see that you're on the same mission of helping other people. So why would I not want to be on your team? I want to root for I'm I'm cheering y'all on because I know that y'all are gonna go out there and make a significant impact in one, two, three thousand people throughout your life. So why wouldn't I want to be on the team with amazing people like that?

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Dang, this just makes me feel so good knowing I chose the right school.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

I'm pretty shitty.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Seriously, like halfway through the program and then like like hearing the way you speak, hearing the way you you speak to the students and like how you you bring up your story, you have like nothing to hide. And it just it just shows and it just shows like you know, the I feel like the people that go into this profession, there's they they are comunidad. They are people that are very relational, care about others. And so that kind of goes into my next question, Doc.

The Real Work Of Faculty Life

SPEAKER_00 6:43

So you are assisting uh faculty for PAU. What does it look like as you're for your role, like on a day-to-day basis?

SPEAKER_01 6:53

I think, you know, again, that's very influenced by like the type of position that I'm in. I'm on a scholar educator track, so that means that a lot of my commitments to my university is teaching. You know, there's a lot, there's lines, different universities call it different things, but there's tenure track lines, there's clinical positions that that's what some universities call them. You know, it just means that we all have different responsibilities. When you're in tenure, that means that some of your units that you have to meet throughout the academic year are geared to doing reach research. So putting out so many publications or presenting at conferences counts towards that. For me, I do research and presentations, but that's not part of my teaching, like my contract. Me, I'm pretty much service, so serving on department and university committees, a lot of different things like that. You know, I'm I'm the Latino Student Union, faculty advisor here at PAU. So that's part of like my service. I'm part of VOSIS, uh formerly known as the Latinx Task Force here at PAU, but now VOSIS. Just so many different things, helping out with admissions. I'm part of the student evaluation committee, like team. So you hold so many different things. But really, my big biggest commitment is teaching. So each quarter I have to teach X amount of units to meet the X amount of units that I have to meet during the quarter, and that changes person to person. But that just means that I I'm in front of students in so many ways as an advisor, as a faculty member, as I I teach practicum and internships, so being a supervisor there. So in so many ways, but it's just really, I kind of narrow it down to just supporting you all, trying to make it to the end to be a great clinician. So that means that I get to to help, like I said, as a faculty, be in those classes, teaching. You know, I a lot of the courses that I teach here are counseling skills, group counseling, uh, sexual issues, practicum, and internship, uh couples slash relational counseling. Those are just some of the career, residency. So all no, that's kind of like it varies quarter to quarter. This quarter, I'm teaching group, couples, and internship. So that's kind of like a very long story made short, but those are kind of like some of my responsibilities and being an advisor. And I think the most important one is just kind of being sometimes just another human to students, you know, because I can be a faculty member, I can be an advisor, but how often do you get to see and interact with a faculty member that can also just be a human with you, if that makes sense?

SPEAKER_00 9:37

That totally makes sense. That resonates with my heart. My heart melted there a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Yeah. It's just it, because I I don't know. I like, you know, we talked about it a little bit last week, but it's just like I didn't come from like like knowing what I was gonna do background, you know. So I told you, you know, I you know, I I know we mentioned, I can mention here, like I'm the first one to graduate high school in my family. So everything from very early on in my educational journey, and I put education in air quotes because it's it's very unique, was kind of like a new thing along the way, like filling out FAFSA. Who the hell knows how to fill out FAFSA? I'm still to this day don't know someone that's just like, I got you, I can fill out your FAFSA for you. But it's just so I know that at so many points in my life, I felt scared, I felt lost, I felt, I also felt great moments when I would get good grades and succeed and all those things. There were lows and highs, but regardless, I felt anxious and all those things throughout my journey. I know that sometimes students feel that way, and I don't I don't want them to have to navigate that alone if I can help.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

You said from like, you know, family that didn't even like have high school, and and now you're like a triple threat with three degrees, like you see Riverside, your master's from is it Georgia? Georgia State, yeah, Georgia State. And then a PhD from Idaho.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Yeah, it's you know you said uh you said it uh earlier, like you took the chance to to to message me to just see if I would be even open to it. You know, uh for how unconventional my journey has been, it's one that I wouldn't change for the world because it's it's influenced me to not lose my humanity and authenticity along the way in this role. Like I show up as me. I'm a professor that listens to rap, that listens to hip hop, yeah. Burst is in his classes here and there, you know, now you know, because that's that's who I am in everyday life. Why would I negate that part to my students? Why would I negate who I am to that part of my students if I'm truly trying to make them build a relationship with the material? Well, if I want them to build a relationship with the material, guess what I need to do? I need to model building a relationship with them.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Oh my goodness. Like you said the word authenticity, and I think that was the the biggest theme for me from your class was how authentic you you made the class, you know, teaching, but also like the way you spoke. And even like your emails, they just felt so raw, they felt so deep and connected. And I I love that you use that word authenticity. So it kind of goes into like the the next transition here.

Being Authentic As A Therapist

SPEAKER_00 12:35

What does it mean to be authentic as a therapist?

SPEAKER_01 12:41

The metaphor that I always use, like you know, I because I teach residency one, and for those folks that might be listening that don't know what that is, we have a residential component part that goes along with our counseling skills class where students are learning counseling skills, but they also have a residential experience where they're putting those skills that they're learning into play, in like either an 11-week residency or a four-day intensive residency. And they're just that means mock role plays, both being in the where you students are asked to be in the role of both a client and counselor. So even though they're mock sessions, they feel real, right? So I always tell my students that this program, this profession is one that's gonna make you sit in front of yourself before you sit in front of a client. And that's why I always say then along the way, you're gonna see or receive messages that say you have to act or say things a certain way or behave, or this is what a feeling reflection looks like, or this is what empathy looks like. Those are just suggestions and strategies of ways to do that skill. I don't want, like I like I told your class, I don't want counselor Ryan. I want Ryan the counselor. You first putting on the counselor hat, not you needing to feel like you need to fit into this one size fits all suit of what a counselor is. So for me, that's what authenticity for anyone that's thinking about doing it, that's actively doing it, that's already in the field, that we don't forget that that I have to be me first, counselor second, because I don't want my clients to think like, oh, he's just responding like a counselor would. I want them to think like, oh no, he's responding the way he would as a counselor. Like I use humor in my c in my sessions. I just can't literally right before this, I just had a session with a client. And I there was humor, there was emotion, there was anger, but we but it felt real to me to not deny that part of to my client. And I'm not saying that every client will benefit that from me, that's what we say. Counseling is all about finding the right fit, but I hope that that to me is what I think would be the most important thing of like that for that question of like you first, show me you first.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

That is that is so deep, and it makes me think about those moments where we had the opportunity to like break out in our groups and like you know be the therapists with our our our couples or whichever

Non Monogamy Cases And Creating Safety

SPEAKER_00 15:33

situation. But something that's like sticking out to me and it that I'm remembering for the listeners is that you you pulled up a case study about like non-monogamy couples. What can you what can you tell about this new generation of like versus traditional? Like what's what what is it looking like in the therapy room? Because when we were playing around with with my group with that couple that was exploring non-monogamy, I kind of wanted to ask you, and so that way like our listeners can hear, what do you expect from us students to to to say or to be with that couple? Because it can be really tricky. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

And you know, obviously tonight, you know, to give a little short summary of what that case study was, yeah, like yeah, it was like you know, exploring working with maybe a pair that had opened up the relationship, or maybe one partner in the relationship had experienced maybe some violence outside of the relationship, uh, you know, through non-monogamy and stuff like that, and just kind of how you would navigate and all that. You asked a really good question of what as an instructor, as me, you know, what I would want students, and that's a hard one because it's like I don't expect you to do anything. What I hope is that you all can create space for safety and connection, all the other stuff, the talking about that abuse, the having the difficult conversation, that if one partner were to escalate and have anger, all like all that, what comes after, I'm not saying that it's gonna be easy, but the hardest thing to even allow that for that to show up, for the emotion and anger or frustration or or even joy, whatever, all those, the the range of emotions, we can't get to that without creating just safety and a feeling of like, hey, I see you and I hear you, and I'm here with you. That's what I would say for for anybody going out there, but specifically for my students, that I'm always telling them it's not about what you say or do, it's about what we create. Can we create space for healing? Can we create space for safety? Can we create space for challenge if there needs to be challenge? Can we create? And most importantly, can we co-create it with our clients?

SPEAKER_00 18:08

So now the word collaboration's kind of coming up for me.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Yeah, because like you say, you know, you asked uh made the good point of like the net, these are things like, you know, yeah, like maybe twenty like no, not maybe. I can guarantee you that not a lot of programs 20 years ago were talking about non-monogamy relationships or queer relationships or just you know interracial relationships. Like I'm not saying that it wasn't talked about, but it's you know, we're now living in a world where we're becoming to recognize that actually maybe a lot of this has existed. It was just stigmatized, it was taboo, it was it was a marginalized, it was oppressed. And if you didn't fit into the norm, then that's something that we didn't talk about. But what that also now has built awareness of like because of that, that has left people to be underserved, to not have the opportunity to feel safe. Like, hey, I'm in a non-monogamous relationship and that I can go and talk to about it with my counselor, if that was me. Or I'm in a I'm in a uh, you know, if I am a queer man, the can am I safe enough to go and tell my client, my counselor that I'm a queer man in a relationship? Like whatever it may be, it's it's about, yeah, there's so much that's that's we're we're building awareness of it, but now we're at the point that we actually have to do action. So it's like moving from awareness to action to actually serve these people, this these communities that need it and have been yearning for that opportunity to receive support, but have been marginalized from it.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

I love how you caught on to that because I was just so surprised again from that case study and how like you you you brought that up and how like you you were just saying, you know, this has probably been going on for a long time. And it makes me also think about my own personal story of like I'm gonna broach here, doc.

Stigma And The Myth Of Being Broken

SPEAKER_00 20:04

So, like, like growing up Filipino American, you know, when I asked my mom before joining the program, what is it like for mental health in the Filipino community? And what I thought was interesting was she said, if any sign of mental health issue was up, you were considered loca loca in Tagalog means you're crazy. And I just thought that is just such a toxic kind of mental health talk that in the Filipino mental health, we got to change that. So it just like inspired me even more to go and do this program because I want to change what Filipinos think mental health really is.

SPEAKER_01 20:43

Yeah, and and a lot of that, because I I I reckon I resonate with that a lot because you know, when I lived in Idaho, and I'm not saying that that's true or making generalizations for the Latinae, Latino, Latina community, but a lot of the times, you know, I often get, you know, I've been when I lived in Idaho, and Idaho has like a for for the size of Idaho, has a big rural Latina Hispanic community. And I remember being invited to like, hey, we want to go and do some workshops in these communities, in these cities where it was predominantly rural, Latina, Hispanic folks, communities. And we were, oh, we want to talk about this, we want to talk about stigma, we want to talk about all this, like all these terms that you and I might not might understand because we're doing this work, we're reading textbooks about depression, anxiety, and all these things. How do you talk about that with people who don't even know what that terminology is? It's you know, for folks, it's first building the awareness of it to not because they don't know it, but to just not I don't normalize it as not the correct word, but to just put it at the forefront like, hey, then we can talk about this open. And it not have to be a scary thing. It not have to be, you know, at times, you know, I've seen you know, mental health kind of be attributed to religious stuff, to witchcraft, to so many different things, to being broken, to, you know, I often heard a very a funny thing when I first when I first started telling my family, like, oh, I'm gonna go be a counselor, in Spanish, there's no real, you know, there is a translation, but it's psicólogo, psychologist, is what they they call them in in Mexico. El psicólogo, el psicólogo, ah, but psicólogos are for crazy people. Those are for crazy people. Like that, like already the association that because I'm doing something related to mental health, I must automatically be uh working with crazy people. And that then also then leads to the other thought of counseling must only be then for broken people. And so if I go to counseling, then I'm broken, and there and it just keeps going and spot it's inspiring that way. So sometimes it's about just having conversations to just bring awareness to these topics because when we're when what we're the a human reaction for a lot of things, when we don't know something, what's the best thing to do it with it? Avoid it. Because it makes me uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

I I'm taking in all that you said there because that was so profound, and like it made me think like you don't have to be broken to get counseling. And I think you know, saying it out loud is just so powerful. You don't have to be broken to get counseling, you don't have to have a toothache to go see the dentist, you don't have to have your A1C at 12 to see the doctor. And and so I'm just like curious, like, why is it like why do like people think that?

SPEAKER_01 24:00

I mean, I feel like that's you know, we talked, you know, we've talked about in class. I think it's just there's so many variables, and those variables are, you know, sometimes also determined by who you are, where you're from, you know, your family, your system, your culture, the values, the things that you maybe saw growing up. But I think a lot of it are some of those norms that we have sometimes in society of like, hey, the the pick yourself up by your bootstraps mentality. The the if this is an emotion that you're supposed to be feeling, put it in a container and put it off to the side because it's it's distracting you from from doing or going where you need to go and all those things. So I think a lot of that is kind of like those implicit and explicit messages. But at the end of the day, I just think it comes down to like who really wants to acknowledge that you know the idea that damn support could be a beneficial thing. You know, like it's just I I'll give the example my dad for so many years I would have never thought that this 6'4 Latino man would go to counseling because his perception was you know, no, it's for crazy people, it's for broken people, it's all those things. But then when he got to experience it and to kind of come out with the other of like, hey, it's actually just meant to help me just be a better version of me if I want that. I don't I don't know how to put that into words, but whatever that is, that's something that I'm hoping more people get to experience for themselves. And that's why I do what I do because I want that when they do make that decision, when they take that real vulnerable risk of saying, Holy shit, I'm gonna go and sit in front of someone, Ryan, my therapist, and tell them about some of the deepest, darkest shit that has gone in my life. I want to know that Ryan's not gonna judge me and make me feel safe. That's why I do what I do.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

That is so awesome. And and Doc, I love that. I love how there was so much authenticity there. You know, you're not afraid to say shit. And I could say it here on my podcast because it's my podcast, but it really shows the authenticity of like you could feel your heart when you when you say it. Do you know what I mean? And and because I grew up in Southern California as well. Like, that's why I kind of like cling to you because like I was like, man, he just here Dr. Lopez reminds me of like people I grew up with in in uh Valencia, California. There was a huge, you know, Latino culture there, and my partner is Mexican, and it's just like it just feels for me, it feels home. It feels like I'm I'm in the right comunidad. And like you talked about the the language and the culture, and you always talk about like underserved populations.

Language Concordant Therapy Training

SPEAKER_00 27:13

I I recently saw an email that you put out. It's called the Language Coordinance Practice. It's something you've been developing, right? And is it for like for therapists that want to speak in a different language? Is that what it's for?

SPEAKER_01 27:29

So one of the yeah, and it's it's well, it's a it's a working name because it actually started off in the in the spring of 2025. Dr. Wathan came up with because we here at PAU, like we have um a Spanish, you know, I will say I think there's 10, I don't know how many programs there are, but less than 1%, probably less than half a percent, have any like a certification program in their in their university. Here at PAU, we have two. We have Spanish and Mandarin certifications with the growth hope of and of expanding it to more opportunities. So what that means is that students here have the opportunity to take, you know, Mandarin for, you know, Mandarin for working with clients and Spanish for working with clients, plus practicum and internship in Spanish andor Mandarin to get a training certificate that says, hey, I've received this kind of like extra training that shows that I can work work providing services in either Mandarin and Spanish. So what we also know is that we don't have we have a lot of students that speak more than Mandarin in Spanish. We have students, an amazing, diverse student population that speaks. I have students that I've interacted with: French, German, Farsi, Hindi, Urdo, Japanese, Cantonese, like so many different things that we're like one of the what's what's one thing that we can offer? Space for them to come and be able to not only practice, but engage with other folks either locally or throughout the program, because we have remote and in and you know, we have remote students all over the country and world, but also a lot of our students are out of the Bay Area. So we want them to have the opportunity to practice, but also make community with that cultural variable of language. You know, we have a lot of students that have signed up for Mandarin, Spanish, you know, Hindi, Urdu, like all these languages I said. And now we're hoping to make that not only an opportunity that's offered at residency, but maybe even turning it into a student club to have guest speakers, to have folks that are doing this work, providing these services in these languages to come and share their wisdom and knowledge with students because language is another way that we can serve clients. You know, I'm I provide services in Spanish and English because my first language was Spanish. And I have seen firsthand the impact not only in my life, but in just with my through my clients, through my personal life of the impact and feeling a client can have when they have a therapist that speaks the same language as them. That there's a lot of things in the profession that I love, but there's something about that. Because for me, I think about those moments growing up when I would go to Walmart or Target, and I would see someone struggling to communicate with a worker there, or at the store, or at the grocery, at the airport, or at the postal office, and me being bilingual and they needed help, and me stepping in, like, hey, I can help, I can help translate for you. And just like the thanks, and again, it's not about like because I wanted the thanks, but it was just something about that that always was like, This is really freaking cool that I can use this thing, this privilege that I've been given of being bilingual to help someone feel more heard, more seen, more understood. Like that's pretty badass. So, how can we then help our students do that same thing through counseling? And so it's just starting, but I would say that's at least where my like wanting to be a part of that, like that's where my where my heart's coming from when I when I talk about like language diversity and counseling. Because our profession is very monolingual, a lot of English counselors, just because it's a very westernized profession. So it works predominantly in English.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

So trying to expand that. I I love how you describe that story of like, you know, when you you can help someone with your language. I I speak very little Tagalog, but when I do speak it, it really like I could understand like making the difference of like just giving that space for that client, that patient to feel safe and just to feel connected. Like there's a part of me in that person that that resonates and they feel they feel seen, they feel like especially Filipino culture, we're very, you know, they say Filipino Kabá, which means like, are you Filipino? And of course I say yes, you know, and it's just there's something that just makes people feel just so safe and just like, okay, you're on my team, and we can get through this together. That's what it feels like.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

And and and I even uh because we just did the residency practice this fast fall. I told students, I was like, this is not true for all of us, but for for some of us there, I said, think about the first memory you have related to joy, or the first memory you have related to sadness. And that some people started sharing about like, oh yeah, I remember this like first birthday party, where I remember when my when I was five, my my my grandma died, or like P, you know, examples, and then I asked them what language was commonly being spoken during that time. Wow, so like for me, even though I grew up in the US, my first language was Spanish. Yeah, I spoke English at school, but joy, anger, sadness, a lot of those emotions for me are associated in Spanish because I think of my birthday parties where everything was in Spanish. I think about sadness. When the first time I remember, I think about when my great-grandmother passed when she was eight, it was in Mexico, it was all in Spanish. So for me, emotions are attached, and I always tell my students, I think in English, but I feel in Spanish. So if your heart's kind of been divided in that way, for a lot of students, even though you're not fluent or all those things, some of the core memories we have might be associated with a specific language. That why wouldn't we want to uncover that for you and use that as a benefit to not only serve your clients providing these services in other languages, but better your overall emotions to the profession? So it's just, you know, that kind of resonated with a lot of students because, you know, a lot of our students, yeah, like they either migrated here from an early age or similar to me, just even though they grew up here in the US, they primarily spoke one language for a lot of their developmental life.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Love that. That that was such a great topic

Claiming Your Voice As A Clinician

SPEAKER_00 34:41

there. And then just kind of shifting gears now, I kind of want to talk about Dr. Lopez about mentorship growth and finding your path. You know, I'm halfway through this program, and you know, I I keep looking on ELC. I'm almost there. I have a site here in Las Vegas that Dr. Harrowick just signed, and I'm just waiting for that last piece there. So I'm I'm super excited to see clients in in the fall. But what would you say for students like me who are still trying to find their voice as therapists? And and maybe you could speak about like what you've seen from me in the classroom or others, but like what does it take and what what do you hope to to find from me maybe by the by the time I hit seeing patients in the fall?

SPEAKER_01 35:34

I well, first of all, congrats with the the search, and hopefully that all works out and everything gets approved. You know, I've I'm part of a lot of those conversations about sites needing to be approved and weighted. So hopefully, all good there. So, what would I say to someone that's learning how to just find their voice, their way? I think I'd say the same thing that I told you when we met last time about, you know, you were saying, I'm trying to figure out how to claim my voice, or something like that, was what you said. Like, you know, you're that you're that this podcast was a way of you trying to figure that out. Like, who who not only are you trying to learn the skills to be a counselor, you're also trying to learn how to exist as a counselor. And this, you know, this is one way that you're trying to do that. And you said, I'm trying to find my voice or claim my voice. And I would say for students, it's not about finding it, it's about the the the the thing the it the space is already there. It's just now time for you to claim it. Because you like you and anyone who's thinking about being a counter, and that doesn't mean that everybody can and should be a counselor. That's also one thing that I want to say, because not everybody, and that's okay. That's fine. Some days I don't feel like being a counter because maybe I had a crack, like that's okay. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that for you, like I'll use you as an example, right? Like you already fit in the profession, not because of who you are, no, because you're needed. You're you being you will help so many people. So now for you, it's just claiming it. And I feel like you're actively doing that by just being you, figuring things out, trying to ask questions. And and that doesn't mean that by the end of the program you will have claimed it. I've, you know, I'm I'm what, five years removed from my master's program, and I still feel like I'm claiming my space. But along the way, that journey, I'm helping, I well, I hope, I hope that I'm helping a lot of people. And that's that's actually for me the way I'm claiming my space within this profession. Because that's if I was to claim anything, I would want to claim the role that I can help people. So maybe me doing what I'm doing is me claiming my space. And maybe you doing what you're doing is claiming that space. So that's what I would say of just like there's gonna be good and bad. You know, you are your always tell students no sight, no experience is gonna be perfect. It's gonna be good and bad. The good, take it with you, put it in your back pocket and carry with you on the journey. The bad, look at it, learn from it, and then leave it because it's not yours to carry. It's not your burden to carry if it's bad.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Dang, that is that is so deep. I'm gonna I'm gonna come, I'm gonna claim it for sure. And then, Doc, you know, we're going into this spring break, and and then there was another email about like how, you know, this is a time for people to rest. And, you know, like a lot of us counselor people, I would say they're very active with like, you know, reading and and just you know, upkeep. But there's there's I think there's beauty in rest and break.

Community Care And Sustainable Self Care

SPEAKER_00 39:04

What do you what what do you do to take care of yourself? Can you share with the listeners? You know, we've learned, I I remember first day coming into the program that what this profession, you it's like it's like a water ride. You will get wet. And self-care is so important. So, what do you do for self-care for yourself? And what do you recommend for for maybe people that are thinking about going into it?

SPEAKER_01 39:31

I think for me, like I always tell students, like I battle with the term self-care because for me, self-care doesn't look self, it looks community way. So I call it sometimes community care because, and that's not something I claim. That's just you know, that those there's things out there that are like on community care and all that type of stuff. But that resonates with me because you know, my care is in being in community with people, like with my my wife, my two-year-old, my family. Sometimes, yeah, I want my lone time because I like, you know, I like I play video games, you know. I I like what I play I like playing pickleball and and soccer and basketball. Like, so I wish I had more time to do it, if I'm being honest, but I think just finding things that work for you, finding things that help re-energize and recharge, but also like actually doing them. Easier said than done. I'm I'm definitely someone that's that's guilty of that because there's gonna be days where good enough is good enough, and that's okay, because that's authentically maybe all you had to give that day. So I think just figuring out those moments, like you know, I I know we talked about it, but the metaphor of like this journey, being a therapist, it's like a marathon, no finish line, you're not racing against anyone else. So why do you have to be sprinting 24-7? You can some days you can crawl, some days you can sprint if you want to, other days maybe it's a light jog. Other days life kicked your ass, and you just want to cry and sit on a rock. Well, guess what? You're not racing against anyone, and there's no finish line. So cry and sit on a rock. So I think that for me is what that's that's for me what care represents. And it's it just it looks different. It looks different. It's it's traveling when I can, you know, this, you know, it's also creating my network. Like I'm always telling folks like make sure that this is a profession you do in community because doing it alone sucks. So for me, it's like I've made like a network through the MBCC Foundation, through the fellowship. You know, I was a fellow there, and you know, I've connected with folks from different parts of the country that we still stay connected. I'm part of a of a of a text message group chat, and I'll shout them out here because I want to let them know. But Clarence, Keontae, Jamal, Avery, you know, like my MBCC Foundation fellowship, like everybody, like like, you know, though those folks that I just mentioned, like those like it's just like it's five of us on a group text, five men of color doing this thing, therapists, mental health. So like that matters to me. And that not only makes me feel energized to go and do the work, it makes me feel energized to also celebrate with us with each other when we do do these things.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

Yeah. Shout out to your colleagues for sure. Yeah, because this is just a little I get a little piece of that that colleague network here, like doing this this episode with you. So for sure, you know, saying their names is definitely the right call there.

Keeping Mental Health Human

SPEAKER_00 42:48

One last question before we end. Doc, so if you could change one thing about how we approach mental health, what would it be?

SPEAKER_01 43:01

Wow, that's a great question. If I could change one thing about mental health, uh, I think just I'll say this one because it's the first one that's coming to my mind. Even though we're a profession built on empathy, on connection, our profession has also a lot of spaces where that's not given or prioritized. That often means at times where organizations and groups remain silent on important issues, that often looks like when the business side of being a counselor takes over, where it becomes a numbers game versus a people game, a human game. I would say that one thing that as our profession is growing and evolving and expanding, that we do not lose at The core, what it is that we're supposed to do. And it's to care about fucking people, to care, to treat people with respect and create safety. And it's all good, said and done, and fun when, you know, when we say, oh, like, yeah, we have to appreciate diversity, but where it gets challenging when when that when it's diverse thought that we disagree with. Even then, that's where we even have to challenge ourselves more to appreciate other perspectives and thoughts, because no, no, no, no space on this earth is full of complete and 100% consensus. So I would just say is that at its core that as we're growing, expanding, that we don't lose the sight on why we first kind of started, and it was to help. And yeah, it's changed and evolved over time because if you, you know, I'm a I'm a kind of like a nerd, but like counseling kind of started from like rehabilitation counseling from soldiers returning from World War I to help them get back to working after, you know, maybe amputations or disabilities through because of the war. That's like the that's the route. You couldn't even go farther back in time, but that's really like the route. And so you can see, okay, there was like to get them back and make them a what do they call it, someone a citizen getting back to the economy, I think was what it was. But at its root, it's helping, helping someone, helping someone accomplish or do something, or or it could not be even do something, it could just be a place for them to come and process and have a place of safety. I would say that we don't lose the core of that as we continue to grow and expand as a profession.

Legacy Mentorship And Closing Reflections

SPEAKER_00 45:40

You know, doc, I I am so blessed to be talking with you, and I really enjoyed our time together. And I again, I really appreciate like the mentorship, the amazing teaching that you did with class. And, you know, I I hope that you know we keep keep this connection going even past this podcast. And hopefully I see you at residency too in May. But you know, how do you feel about like doing this podcast? Like, how did it make you feel?

SPEAKER_01 46:14

It feels good. I think it's you know, now as we're kind of coming up to an end of it, it reminds me though, that like the thing that I'm thinking about too is that it's amazing because like I'm sure you too like like you're you're you're doing amazing work, building awareness. Like this is a a branch that you're trying to create that hopefully expands to a beautiful tree. Like I'm thinking about like some of the work that we do. It's a metaphor that I learned um at a at a conference once of like recognizing that some of the work that we're doing, it's like planting a tree, but recognizing that we're that we might not be the people that benefit from the shade because change happens over a long time. So, like for you, you're trying to do that for the Filipino community to enhance, and you're trying to plant this tree, but you might not be the one that benefits from the shade because it might be the generation after that maybe didn't have the opportunities that now has the opportunities that you didn't have in when you were growing up to talk about emotion, to talk about this. So it's like that's one thing that um I'm kind of sitting with because that's kind of what I'm resonating with too, is like I'm here because my parents didn't graduate high school. They they had to work and and provide. And my uncle, who was like for me the the most inspirational person in my life who passed away from COVID, like I'm I'm here standing on the work that they took to help build the foundation for opportunities that they didn't have that I now have. So I think it's pretty cool that you're kind of doing that. And it's it also a reminder that we don't do it alone. And I hope that we don't do it alone. Like I have a really amazing wife, I have a two-year-old that that gives me joy, like I have, you know, family, friends, supports that have helped me push me to do these things. So that's kind of what I'm sitting with half, you know, as kind of we wrap up today, that it's that yeah, we're that I appreciate all the kind words that you're saying of like, you know, you've you know, you've benefited from like classes and all that type of stuff. And it's it's music to my heart because it it kind of validates all the stuff that other people don't get to see that I got to see of like my parents' challenges and my uncle and you know, my uncle sacrificing for the business because he was an undocumented person. He he passed away never having the opportunity to go back to Mexico. Like, you know, those are sacrifices that aren't talked about enough. And so it it kind of that's kind of like my full circle moment of like you saying, like, oh thanks, Doctor. Like, I really appreciate your classes. Like, well, shit, the only reason I have the opportunity to create this class is because all this from my from my past.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

Yeah, just a quick like relation to that is what people see of me is just the hard work of my ancestors, of my great-grandma, of my my parents, of my grandparents, you know, you know, my mom's dad who joined the US Navy and took that sacrifice, you know, to come to serve in the US Navy and bring the family here. And and so what people are seeing are probably just the sacrifices of so many people before us. And so I love how you explain that story.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

And and you said the great their their greatest hard work, I would say one of their greatest successes. Because that's what we are.

SPEAKER_00 49:55

Dr. Lopez, thank you so much, not for just being here, but making an impact on students like myself and the communities you serve. Um, thank you for being part of this. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it very much.